Janet Collins
Billy MExcuses, Excuses, Excuses - Why children need DISCIPLINE
January 22nd 2007 12:47
“The violent child is the most potent image of violated innocence that we have. If humankind is capable of this, then perhaps we are beyond redemption.” -- Ian McEwan
Last week a 17 year old boy murdered an Armenian-Turkish journalist. The child seemed to be responding to an article Hrant Dink had written regarding the state of Armenian-Turkish relations. That's a crime, the courts said, and awarded him 6 months probation for his efforts. He died for "insulting Turkishness". Remind me how many people have disgraced Australia - including the Muslim leader (who has been denounced by many Muslims - go figure).
Known as Ogun S, the child admitted that he didn't regret it, and that internet sites influenced his actions and made him do it. Another productive member of society. Along with the gang of kids from Werribee who set fire to a homeless man and sexually abused a young girl.
But it all reminds me of the Jamie Bulgar case of 1993. The two ten-year-old boys who stole, abused and murdered a two year old child. They beat him with bricks and iron bars, kicked him, undressed him and left him for dead on the railroad tracks. He died shortly before the train came.
At the prosecution, Jon Venables' and Robert Thompson's respective lawyers each cast the other boy in a bad light - just as the boys had done in interrogation. Is this what we are taught at an early age? Save yourself at the expense of another? And is this sort of violence taught, or is it innate? People everywhere tried to blame it on Childs Play IV, in which similar scenes were enacted. But the kids had never seen it. Why do we always look for a scapegoat?
A little bit of fear can go a long long way, and short of belting a child - dominance needs to be shown by the parents. Myself? I could easily have gone in the wrong direction. "If your parents ever hit you, you need to tell the police straight away." That is what my first grade teacher told the class one afternoon. When I got home and repeated it, Dad said - jokingly, I should stress - "if you ever tell the police that, then I'll really hit you." I was never physically disciplined in the first place, but that remark really set the boundaries.
So many children are out there commiting crimes - these are just the ones we hear about. Where the hell are the parents ?
Last week a 17 year old boy murdered an Armenian-Turkish journalist. The child seemed to be responding to an article Hrant Dink had written regarding the state of Armenian-Turkish relations. That's a crime, the courts said, and awarded him 6 months probation for his efforts. He died for "insulting Turkishness". Remind me how many people have disgraced Australia - including the Muslim leader (who has been denounced by many Muslims - go figure).
Known as Ogun S, the child admitted that he didn't regret it, and that internet sites influenced his actions and made him do it. Another productive member of society. Along with the gang of kids from Werribee who set fire to a homeless man and sexually abused a young girl.
But it all reminds me of the Jamie Bulgar case of 1993. The two ten-year-old boys who stole, abused and murdered a two year old child. They beat him with bricks and iron bars, kicked him, undressed him and left him for dead on the railroad tracks. He died shortly before the train came.
The two murderers - Who were the parents?!
At the prosecution, Jon Venables' and Robert Thompson's respective lawyers each cast the other boy in a bad light - just as the boys had done in interrogation. Is this what we are taught at an early age? Save yourself at the expense of another? And is this sort of violence taught, or is it innate? People everywhere tried to blame it on Childs Play IV, in which similar scenes were enacted. But the kids had never seen it. Why do we always look for a scapegoat?
A little bit of fear can go a long long way, and short of belting a child - dominance needs to be shown by the parents. Myself? I could easily have gone in the wrong direction. "If your parents ever hit you, you need to tell the police straight away." That is what my first grade teacher told the class one afternoon. When I got home and repeated it, Dad said - jokingly, I should stress - "if you ever tell the police that, then I'll really hit you." I was never physically disciplined in the first place, but that remark really set the boundaries.
So many children are out there commiting crimes - these are just the ones we hear about. Where the hell are the parents ?
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Comment by Sarah White
coolgirlsar to the rescue
One Too Many Chocolate Bars
You ask where are the parents, sadly some of them don't care but others are sitting at home blissfully unaware of what their child is up to and believing what they are told.
I really worry about how society will be in years to come and what my little boy will have to live with. My husband and I try to install as best a discipline as we can but even nowadays there is talk that you can't tell your child they are naughty and put them in time out and of course a little tap on the hand is frowned upon and in all honesty only makes the parent feel worse.
It's hard to think that some children are just born this way, with a so called "naughty gene" but has society broken down that much that children act the way they do?
I don't know, it just saddens me to hear stories like this one.
Sarah.
xxx
Comment by JohnDoe
Film & TV on DVD
Comment by Nina
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Absolutely children need discipline and absolutely parents need to take charge and responsibility for their child's behaviour.
But I have noticed that my 5 year old daughter started to exhibit some unsavoury behaviour. Nothing too drastic, just being a little bit more rude I found. Where did she get this from? Other kids at school.
I don't shy away from my job of disciplining her and stamping out this unsavoury behaviour but sometimes it does feel like you are treading over old ground.
It is also sometimes surprising how influential other kids can be. What I have been trying to instill in my kids for years can be undone very quickly.
You can't dismiss external influences, as a parent it just makes it frustrating. Forget when they become teenagers and are defiant just for the sake of it.
But yes, discipline all the way. Parents can't let up.
Good post.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Hope
Gifted Parenting
Freelance For Life
It's also very important to build a strong bond with our children especially while they are still young. When we send kids off to school they are exposed to other children from varying backgrounds and upbringing. but If we instilled in them values while they are young, the chances of them being influenced by bad peers are slimmer.
I shudder to think what those two boys did to that poor 2 year old.
Comment by KylieW
Celebrity Obsession
I think the most important role model in any kids life is their parents.
If you have a child, then you also have a responsibility to raise that child and instill discipline and a sense of right and wrong.
Of course, a parent can't be held entirely responsible for their kids actions....lets face it we can all remember blatantly lying to our parents about things when we were younger. But it starts with the parents.
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Kidding.
Kids need boudries and to be educated in self disaplin.
In the contect between the carrot and the stick most parent are both and they are neither. We parents are a crazy bunch.
I find it crazy to see a group of ten year old wandering the suburbs after 10pm.
Booze gloious booze gets us through it all.
Comment by Candice
Discipline is necessary but not in an 'authoritarian' way. Children need to learn to understand boundaries in a way that enhances their self-esteem, not destroys it.
I have already seen parents smack and yell at children who are barely even toddlers in efforts to 'discipline' them. What does this achieve? Nothing. Children who are gently shown how to behave in a complex world will become happier individuals and therefore will have more empathy towards others. Children who are respected as individuals, who are guided towards acceptable behaviours, who are loved and nurtured and taught will become happy, well-adjusted adults.
Children should be primarily treated with greater kindness and respect than they are in today's society. Sometimes I think we forget that children are people too who have feelings that can be hurt and who are vulnerable. Children don't set out to be 'naughty', they are trying to find their way in the world and the parent's job is to help them find that out in a nurturing way.
Comment by AnthonyB
Sarah and Mrs M. - Absolutely. Children pick up a lot from other kids, and they can be difficult to monitor - even at home. It's a terrible thing when you suddenly realise that they've changed, and they're displaying behaviour that is completely against everything you've taught them thus far.
I hope I didn't seem too critical of parents - most do a terrific job. But it is sad that some parents get it really wrong, and having an unstable home environment can only lead to trouble. It is my understanding that any caring, half-decent parent will produce a child that is, to some extent, normal. The two murderer children were quite abnormal and the parents were frequently breaking up and hitting their child.
Comment by AnthonyB
John Doe and Hope ,
Thanks for your comments! My point exactly. I mean, if the parents are unable -financially or emotionally - to look after their child, they need a postive role model elsewhere to help mentor them. It is important to relate to children, but the modern perspective seems to be that friendship will promote honesty and better behaviour - whereas some children can go the complete other direction and abuse that sort of relationship. at young ages, all children need a firm hand - that, i think is indisputable.
You two raised some great points !! Thanks for that.
Kylie and Nina:
Oh, it gets my goat too !! It's this thing that children can't be capable of such things - theyre too young. Ridiculous ! at such ages, there are firmly established rights and wrongs and crossing those borders is a choice, not something TV or film can make you do. People just end up using it to avoid responsibility.
Spot on !! thanks for the visits, ladies !
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
No offence taken here.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
"Have you ever tried sitting down with your kids, turning off the tv, and hitting them?"
Seriously though, disciplining kids is a huge task in this day and age. Hitting, yelling, punishing, never enough.
You've given me something to think about though, the mark of a good post.
JZ
Comment by AnthonyB
I do love Bender, and I hope his wisdom guides me to a better place.
Thanks for your compliments, again ! and thanks for the visit
- Anthony
Comment by Sarah White
coolgirlsar to the rescue
One Too Many Chocolate Bars
I'll give you an example. I have a three and a half year old son. Where we live is down a public footpath that for what must have been the last 8 years maybe more has been the local spot for kids to hang out and do all those naughty things they shouldn't like underage drinking, drugs, vandalism, arson, fighting. graffittiing the list goes on and on. Some of these kid were as young as ten but most were between the ages of what must be 13-15 years old. The problem (well apart from the kids) that we had was that our son started taking an interest in what these kids were doing. mostly the throwing of bottles, beer cans, bits of bricks etc at each other or properties (yep windows) or the graffitting. My son rarely saw these kids being disciplined and them always laughing and having fun so to his way of thinking there wasn't anything wrong in what they were doing. He started for no reason hitting my husband and I or we'd come back into the room and he'd drawn on the walls and he'd nearly always say "Well they do it outside." We stuck at it and told him they were wrong and naughty and now he doesn't draw on the walls or throw things at us that he shouldn't, but it was tough trying to get that message through to him and took a long time and we were in the situation where we thought to ourselves "well how can you discipline him?"
As for these kids that hang (well I should say did hang around) I've heard that some of them do come from backgrounds where their parent/s are in prison or are drug dealers/takers etc but a good few of them aren't, their parents think they've just gone into town after school to be with friends or in the evenings are around a friends house and are shocked when they have their child brought back home by the police and told what they have been up to.
Comment by AnthonyB
Thankfully too. I doubt I would have written this if i grew up throwing glass bottles at people and not offering my seat to pregnant women..
Thanks for everything Sarah !
- Anthony